tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post7430785458672715721..comments2020-05-11T19:30:14.785-07:00Comments on Above 49: In Medias LudusNels Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06484436433023780229noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-18272115486187456332010-04-25T21:44:26.083-07:002010-04-25T21:44:26.083-07:00@Matador Beyond Good & Evil somewhat fits the ...@Matador <i>Beyond Good & Evil</i> somewhat fits the bill, but I wouldn't say it's exactly <i>in medias res</i> as the game starts at the beginning of the protagonist's story. There were other things going on in Hillys, to be sure, but Jade's story didn't really begin until the attack on her lighthouse. <br /><br />@Kirk <i>Prototype</i> did that and it didn't work too well. But I think the game had other problems, most significantly that it was never really clear if you were supposed to empathize with the protagonist or not. But even mechanically, you start the game with a raft of abilities and no real idea how any of them work. It's more confusing and overwhelming than fun. Just when you start to get the hang of it, they all go away.<br /><br />Putting those things together would be great, but it's definitely difficult. That being said, a game with a different mechanical progression might be more amenable to a structure like this as well.Nels Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484436433023780229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-16413040983556501922010-04-24T23:37:19.101-07:002010-04-24T23:37:19.101-07:00I think the problem, Kirk, isn't that there ar...I think the problem, Kirk, isn't that there aren't any designers willing to do this. I think electronic gaming has proceeded out of an archaic level-by-level structure and that designers aren't considering how each segment fits together within the composition<br /><br />. If you think about the Flow channel, there's a necessary progression that your player needs to feel. Narrative and progression go hand in hand. Whether you like it or not, the player is going to perceive a story, so why not take advantage of that and craft a story worthy of your mechanic. I see plenty of games that emphasize graphic aesthetic. Why don't we focus more an storytelling aesthetic?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13337994838389219456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-27464351698386420062010-04-24T13:39:06.449-07:002010-04-24T13:39:06.449-07:00I wonder why more games don't combine narrativ...I wonder why more games don't combine narrative IMR with mechanical IML - I'm trying to think of a game that sets players up with all of their rad powers then sends them back in the <i>narrative</i>. <br /><br />Which would force them to progress up to the introduction and in doing so, re-earn all the powers they got teased with in the intro. So in addition to the gameplay motivation, it could also take advantage of the narrative tricks that IMR can allow (i.e. "Oh, I'm meeting that guy who was lying dead in the intro! I wonder how that'll come to pass?") <br /><br />It'd be a double-whammy, <i>in media res</i> AND <i>in medium ludum.</i> No player could <i>resist!</i> :)<br /><br />I wonder why we don't see that more. I guess it's because in order to do it properly, it requires a really well put-together narrative and an incredibly organized team? Since you have to be able to look at the entire narrative in order to tell it out of order...<br /><br />But yeah, I'm trying to think of an example that does both, and can't really come up with one. But I'm sure there are examples I'm not thinking of.<br /><br />You know, there's another version of this kind of thing that comes to mind - starting players out with nothing and putting them up against a no-win boss that whups their ass. So then in theory, they're extra-motivated to level up so that when that boss reappears, they can exact revenge.Kirk Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394119073986661595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-22739887746840531392010-04-24T10:44:07.444-07:002010-04-24T10:44:07.444-07:00I think there's a greater number of games that...I think there's a greater number of games that start in the middle of the action than you give credit. Beyond Good and Evil is a great example. <br /><br />It starts with a cutscene that seems a tad slow paced, then a meteor storm begins. Jade invites fen on her back [she's a faster runner], races to turn on the power, and sends the children inside. Almost immediately, the power gets cut [revealing their poverty], and that's when everything hits the fan. A meteor hits at the base of the lighthouse, and all the kids fall into a sinkhole and are taken captive. That's when you take control...<br /><br />I started playing BGE last night for my study of Cast Mechanics and it struck me that this is another great example of using narrative structure to draw the player into the games world.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13337994838389219456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-12236043623560132010-04-23T23:05:07.545-07:002010-04-23T23:05:07.545-07:00@Kirk Aye, it's definitely easy to slip into a...@Kirk Aye, it's definitely easy to slip into a realm of cliche. However, given that games barely ever experiment with narrative structure, even less common cliches might be welcome at times ;)<br /><br />Ah yeah, I forgot about <i>Shadow Complex</i>. I think if you're going to do <i>in medium ludum</i>, having the introductory character be someone other than the main player character is probably more palatable. Rather than spending the majority of the game trying to get back what you lost, you're trying to catch up to someone else. A subtle distinction, but it could be an important one.Nels Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484436433023780229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-43669035738478707682010-04-23T10:44:03.011-07:002010-04-23T10:44:03.011-07:00Very interesting - I was just thinking about this ...Very interesting - I was just thinking about this while playing through Uncharted 2 again. That game did <i>such</i> a good job with its IMR introduction - but what was interesting was that it was only good because I haven't seen a game do such a pitch-perfect ripoff of a Film or TV IMR introduction.<br /><br />So we start with Nathan "That's my blood. That's a lot of my blood" Drake playing through the tutorial up the back of the car, then he stumbles out and we flash back to him getting the break-in assignment. Then back to drake as he makes his way through the wreckage, then skip back to Chloe and Drake scheming. Then through the final part of the tutorial, when Drake finds the dagger that set this whole thing in motion.<br /><br />What's funny is that an introduction like that sets my teeth on edge in TV - I watch a lot of TV, and so have seen IMR introductions a billion times. But at least UC2 didn't do the thing where one main character "shoots" another main character right after the camera pulls away and we get the "72 hours earlier" chyron or whatever. That cliché is my least favorite of all.<br /><br />I thought Shadow Complex had an interesting take on IML - instead of having you play as yourself in the future with all your gear, it put you in the shoes of some other dude, and even betrayed the fact that the suit has a built-in shutdown mechanism. Sort of like a twist on the Metroid introduction. Kinda cool...Kirk Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394119073986661595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-71419366213690759352010-04-20T11:16:37.758-07:002010-04-20T11:16:37.758-07:00@Matador Very nice, the Indiana Jones are another ...@Matador Very nice, the <i>Indiana Jones</i> are another great example of a in medias res opening that conveys a raft of information about the character and themes while still being exciting and engaging. I like how your post called out those scenes basically show that, by starting at the end of a previous adventure, we quickly understand these are the types of things this character does.<br /><br />While <i>Wet</i> had lots of other narrative weaknesses, they have a similarly strong opening that I quite liked.Nels Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484436433023780229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-55236371326707740092010-04-19T11:22:21.330-07:002010-04-19T11:22:21.330-07:00Friggin' awesome! I posted on something simil...Friggin' awesome! I posted on something similar <a href="http://gameliterature.blogspot.com/2010/04/our-methods-have-not-differed-as-much.html" rel="nofollow">based on Indiana Jones</a>.<br /><br />If three different people have written posts on the subject, there's bound to be more. And if there's a writting trend, there will soon follow a design trend.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13337994838389219456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-21721029730252224942010-04-19T09:50:43.609-07:002010-04-19T09:50:43.609-07:00@Roger Oh nice, I guess I missed that on the first...@Roger Oh nice, I guess I missed that on the first go around. I'll read it now.<br /><br />And yes, it's been far too many years since my undergrad latin classes ;) Thanks!Nels Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484436433023780229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6542773327630613295.post-45387284861819228952010-04-19T08:27:59.292-07:002010-04-19T08:27:59.292-07:00Nice post!
Two notes from a nitpicking classicis...Nice post! <br /><br />Two notes from a nitpicking classicist:<br /><br />1) I did a <a href="http://livingepic.blogspot.com/2008/05/interactivity-of-homerids-2-in-medias.html" rel="nofollow">post</a> on <i>in medias res</i> that I thought was kind of fun.<br /><br />2) The phrase you want is <i>in medium ludum</i>. For what it's worth. :DAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685450956270144818noreply@blogger.com